NH #508: Plutonium + Nazis + Crashes = US Nukes in Space Dangers: Karl Grossman​​​​‌‍​‍​‍‌‍‌​‍‌‍‍‌‌‍‌‌‍‍‌‌‍‍​‍​‍​‍‍​‍​‍‌​‌‍​‌‌‍‍‌‍‍‌‌‌​‌‍‌​‍‍‌‍‍‌‌‍​‍​‍​‍​​‍​‍‌‍‍​‌​‍‌‍‌‌‌‍‌‍​‍​‍​‍‍​‍​‍‌‍‍​‌‌​‌‌​‌​​‌​​‍‍​‍​‍‌​‌‌​‌‌‌‌‍‌​‌‍‍‌‌‍​‍‍‌‍‍‌‌‌‌‍​‌‍​‌‍‌‌‌‍​‌‌​‍‌‍‍​‌‍‌‌​‌​‌‍‌‌‌‍​‌‌‌​​‍‍‌‍​‌‍‌‍‌​‍‌‍‍‌‌‍‍‌‌​‌‍‌‌‌‍‍‌‌​​‍‌‍‌‌‌‍‌​‌‍‍‌‌‌​​‍‌‍‌‌‍‌‍‌​‌‍‌‌​‌‌​​‌​‍‌‍‌‌‌​‌‍‌‌‌‍‍‌‌​‌‍​‌‌‌​‌‍‍‌‌‍‌‍‍​‍‌‍‍‌‌‍‌​​‌‌‍‌‌‌​​‌‍‍‌‌​‌‍‌‍‌​‌‍‌‌​‍‌​‍​​​​​​‍​​​‍‌‌​‌‍‌‌​​‌‍‌‌​‌‌‍‌‌‌​​‌‍‍‌‌​‌‍‌‍‌​‌‍‌‌​‍‌​​‌‍​‌‌‌​‌‍‍​​‌‌‌​‌‍‍‌‌‌​‌‍​‌‍‌‌​‌‍​‍‌‍​‌‌​‌‍‌‌‌‌‌‌‌​‍‌‍​​‌‌‍‍​‌‌​‌‌​‌​​‌​​‍‌‌​​‌​​‌​‍‌‌​​‍‌​‌‍​‍‌‌​​‍‌​‌‍‌​‌‌​‌‌‌‌‍‌​‌‍‍‌‌‍​‍‍‌‍‍‌‌‌‌‍​‌‍​‌‍‌‌‌‍​‌‌​‍‌‍‍​‌‍‌‌​‌​‌‍‌‌‌‍​‌‌‌​​‍‍‌‍​‌‍‌‍‌​‍‌‍‌‍‍‌‌‍‌​​‌‌‍‌‌‌​​‌‍‍‌‌​‌‍‌‍‌​‌‍‌‌​‍‌​‍​​​​​​‍​​​‍‌‍‌‌​‌‍‌‌​​‌‍‌‌​‌‌‍‌‌‌​​‌‍‍‌‌​‌‍‌‍‌​‌‍‌‌​‍‌‍‌​​‌‍​‌‌‌​‌‍‍​​‌‌‌​‌‍‍‌‌‌​‌‍​‌‍‌‌​‍‌‍‌​​‌‍‌‌‌​‍‌​‌​​‌‍‌‌‌‍​‌‌​‌‍‍‌‌‌‍‌‍‌‌​‌‌​​‌‌‌‌‍​‍‌‍​‌‍‍‌‌​‌‍‍​‌‍‌‌‌‍‌​​‍​‍‌‌

Libbe HaLevy

00:00:01

Nukes in space. It’s easy to ignore the implications of radioactive materials on board, rocket satellites, even the Mars Rover. But even if you assume that you are immune to the consequences of nuclear, so terribly far away, you get a real wake-up call. When you hear a genuine expert. Talk about an early accident that happened in connection with space, and he tells me,

Karl Grossman

00:00:29

And this snap nine, a launch didn’t achieve orbit. The satellite comes crashing back to earth breaks apart, disintegrates with the plutonium spread widely over the planet. Dr. John Gottman at the university of California at Berkeley and MD a PhD involved in some of the isolation of plutonium during the Manhattan project, connected that disaster to rise in lung cancer on earth.

Libbe HaLevy

00:00:57

Well, when you learn about yet another nuclear danger that we all face and the person delivering that information is the eminent investigative journalist, Carl Grossman. You can trust that. It’s true. And yet another example of how every last one of us on this planet is clamped into that awful seat that we all share

Announcer

00:01:21

Clear, hot seat. What are those people thinking? Nuclear hot seat. What have those boys been breaking their hot seat? The Ms. Sinking our time to act is shrinking, but nuclear Hotsy. It’s the bomb.

Libbe HaLevy

00:01:52

Welcome to nuclear hunt seat, the weekly international news magazine, keeping you up to date on all things nuclear from a different perspective. My name is Leiby Halevi I’m the producer and host as well as a survivor of the nuclear accident at three mile island from just one mile away. So I know what can happen when those nuclear so-called experts get it wrong. This week, we hear from veteran environmental journalists, Carl Grossman, who explains how the dangers posed by nuclear power and weapons in space is more wide ranging and immediate than most of us suspected and how there’s some nuclear damage that has already invisibly been done to our health and wellbeing because of nukes in space. And we’ll also hear about a great paid fellowship opportunity offered to young people, young people in the movement, yay. By beyond the bum, Rachel, a former recipient of this fellowship shares details, not only about the fellowship, but about how receiving it changed life.

Libbe HaLevy

00:03:01

We will also have nuclear news from around the world numnuts of the week for outstanding nuclear bone headedness, and more honest nuclear information then got any kind of entertainment award or even nomination so far this year, all of it coming up in just a few moments today is Tuesday, March 16th, 2021. And here is this week’s nuclear news from a different perspective. Last week on March 11th was the 10th anniversary of the start of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear disaster. The world’s press was a wash with stories about nuclear from the propaganda of bill gates and others all the way up to actual reports of what happened to the people who lived in and evacuated from Northeast Japan, Greenpeace, Japan issued two reports that highlight the complex legacy of the earthquake tsunami and nuclear disaster. One decade ago, focus Shima 2011 to 2000 to 20 detailed radiation levels in in Fukushima prefecture.

Libbe HaLevy

00:04:11

Greenpeace’s original findings showed that decontamination efforts have been limited. And that 85% of the special decontamination area has undergone no decontamination. The second report decommissioning of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power station critiqued the current official decommission plan within 30 to 40 years as having no prospect of success and says that it is delusional. Sean Burney, senior nuclear specialists at Greenpeace east Asia said success of governments during the last 10 years and largely under prime minister, Shinzo ABI have attempted to perpetuate a myth about the nuclear disaster. They have sought to deceive the Japanese people by misrepresenting the effectiveness of the decontamination program and ignoring radiological risks. He went on to say the decade of deception and illusion on the part of the government and tap call must end. A new decommissioning plan is inevitable. So why waste any more time with the current fantasy Greenpeace said its own radiation surveys conducted over the last decade have consistently found readings above government target levels, including in areas that have reopened to the public.

Libbe HaLevy

00:05:25

The lifting of evacuation orders in places where radiation remains above safe levels, potentially exposes people to an increased risk of cancer. Their reports confirm information that was shared on last week’s nuclear hot seat voices from Japan special. And we will post links to the articles on the website, nuclear hot seat.com under this episode, number 5 0 8 1 collaborator with Japan on the fiction that there is no danger. And that recovery is going well. Is the United nations scientific committee, the effects of atomic radiation or own skier? It has issued a report saying no adverse health effects among Fukushima residents have been documented and nuclear hot seat has covered the manipulation of the documentation to ensure that no clean data is available. Do United nations nuclear lapdog watchdog. The international atomic energy agency said that there was quote unquote, no evidence that the disaster had any detrimental effects on people’s health ignoring the shocking number of thyroid cancer cases that have shown up among children and dismissing these sharply higher rate of thyroid cancers detected among children as likely due to better diagnostics.

Libbe HaLevy

00:06:44

This was strongly contradicted by Dr. Alex Rosen, a pediatrician who co-chairs the German affiliate of international physicians for the prevention of nuclear war. He was interviewed on nuclear hot seat. And that interview was picked up as source material for an article in the bulletin of atomic scientists, where in Dr. Rosen said Japan has clamped down on scientific efforts to study the nuclear catastrophe. There is hardly any literature, any publicized research health effects on humans. And those that are published come from a small group of researchers at Fukushima medical university, which are centered around the scientists. Shinichi Yamashita, who in Japan is called Mr. 100 millisieverts because in the wake of the disaster, he not only recommended against administering iodine pills to prevent thyroid cancer. He told people that their best protection against radiation poisoning was literally to smile and be happy links on the website to both the bulletin of atomic scientists, article and nuclear hot seat, 4 98 with Dr.

Libbe HaLevy

00:07:49

Rosen’s full interview. The Fukushima district court has ruled against plaintiffs in a lawsuit, filed by parents and children who lived in the prefecture at the time of the accident at the nuclear power station, claiming that measures were not taken to avoid radiation exposure to their children. The 160 parents and children who lived there were seeking 100,000 yen per person in damages from the government and to the prefecture. That sounds like a lot until you crunch the numbers and realize it’s only $916 plus change in us dollars. Now stories are flooding the media in Japan about the country of being undecided about the timing and the method of releasing radioactive water from Fukushima Daiichi into the Pacific ocean, not if it should be released, but when and how note the change in emphasis on the story. And not only that,

Announcer

00:08:55

Mike

Libbe HaLevy

00:08:57

Talk about your tone, deaf timing on March 11, which was of course the 10th anniversary of the start of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear disaster, the head of tap CO’s holding company. Tamaki Kobayakawa first apologized to the victims of the Fukushima nuclear disaster, and then turn around and immediately added that nuclear power generation will still be needed and pushing for the restart of the number seven reactor at the Kashia was Zaki Curry, one nuclear plant in Nikita only a little over 100 air miles away from Fukushima Daiichi. This poster boy for numb nuts of the week said that operating a nuclear plant contributes to a stable power supply. Yeah. How stable was it at Fukushima? He then said that nuclear protects the environment. There isn’t even a WTF big enough to cover that one. And he completely ignored recent questions about the fitness of TEPCO and its ability to safely run a nuclear plant.

Libbe HaLevy

01:10:05

When according to recent reports in September, a tech co-employee entered a central control room at the CATIA Zaki Korea plan using the ID of another employee, something that reported for four months and since January of 2021, several safeguard measures at the plant were not finished. Despite early reports stating that they were in response, Koboyakawa said we will get to the bottom of these incidents and repair our corporate culture. No dude, you’ve got to repair the damage you have done to people and to the environment through Fukushima, Daiichi, and shut all the rest of them down forever. While you figure out what you’re going to do with the waste. And that is why once again, Tokyo electric power company Tesco, and your toady minions. You are this week’s no.

Announcer

01:11:02

Okay. Your hot seat

Libbe HaLevy

01:11:07

Here in the United States support for nuclear reactors is starting to be reversed lawmakers in the Ohio house, voted to repeal a $1 billion bailout for two nuclear plants that federal investigators say were at the heart of a state bribery scandal. Since the controversial house bill six past former Ohio house speaker, Larry householder was arrested in connection with a $61 million bribery scheme to let team leader of the house so that he could pass the nuclear bailout and defendant against a ballot initiative to block the law. If passed house bill 1 28 would acts subsidies for the energy Harbor plants eliminate a first energy fee meant to keep the company quote recession-proof and quote, and repeal a benefit that helped a subsidiary avoid refunding customers for significantly excessive profits. In Michigan, the state attorney general is objecting to the transfer of the Palisades nuclear plant and a spent waste storage site on lake Michigan, arguing that Holtec the company planning to take ownership of both sites lacks adequate financial resources and has underestimated the decommissioning costs saying that whole tax plan quote, endangers our environment and health and potentially leaves our residents to bear the costs of proper cleanup and quote, Nevada lawmakers have filed a bill that would require the federal government to receive consent from state local and tribal entities before constructing a permanent repository for nuclear waste.

Libbe HaLevy

01:12:45

The New Mexico environmental department has alleged in court that Los Alamos national laboratory has failed to clean up its nuclear waste and alleged. The department of energy displayed a pattern of failing to meet deadlines and benchmarks for hazardous waste cleanup at the federal nuclear facility in Northern New Mexico. And to those who are still delusional enough to believe that nuclear waste can be safely shipped from nuclear reactors around the country to propose interim storage sites in New Mexico and west Texas. This reminder, an 18 wheel truck hit a train carrying chemicals and fuels in Cameron, Texas on February 24th, causing a huge explosion and starting a fire that was expected to burn for several days. The first 11 cars of the train were filled with gasoline coal and petroleum products. Imagine if it had been highly radioactive used fuel rods from nuclear reactors and in France, according to the NGO association for the control of radioactivity in the west dust from the Sahara desert low north by strong seasonal winds to France carried abnormal levels of radiation.

Libbe HaLevy

01:13:55

The cesium 1 37 comes from nuclear tests carried out by France and the Algerian desert at the beginning of the 1960s, nuclear karma, we’ll have this week’s featured interview in just a moment, but first nuclear problems are going to continue to be with us forever. From uranium mining to weapons, production, to radiation, leaking reactors, to still not having a way to safely store the deadly radioactive waste produced by all these endeavors. And now, as you will hear the dangers of reactors and weapons in space, nuclear is government and industry not caring, how they contaminate the world as long as they keep making obscene profits and fool themselves into thinking they are immune to the consequences of their actions when they most definitely are not. Meanwhile, we all have to deal with the dangers of radioactive contamination that will not go away on its own ever. So let’s be honest.

Libbe HaLevy

01:14:56

Nuclear is a deadly mess, and that is why you need nuclear hot seat to get into nuclear stories, with fact continuity and context, as well as a healthy dose of skepticism with a much deeper and nuanced telling that you would ever expect on mainstream media. We get behind the scenes under the skin and into the heart of nuclear matters every week with fresh information and unrelenting perspective. And even whenever possible humor, that’s why the time would be right now to support us with a donation, just go to nuclear, hot seat.com and click on the big red donate button to help us with a donation of any size. And that same red button is where you can now set up a monthly $5 donation, the same as a cup of coffee and a nice tip here in the U S please. We all need this information.

Libbe HaLevy

01:15:54

So do what you can now and know that however much you can help, I am deeply grateful that you’re listening and that you care now here’s this week’s featured interview. Now here’s this week’s featured interview as regular listeners to nuclear hot seat. No, Carl Grossman is one of my favorite interviewees. He is an author and journalism professor at the state university of New York college at old Westbury host of the television program in viral close-up with Carl Grossman, author of six books and writer of an uncountable number of magazine, newspaper, and internet articles. Carol has been covering nuclear issues for over 50 years and he carries our archives in his mind, wood that we could download and publish that. Here we talk with him about nukes in space, the dangers they represent from launch to orbit to crash down Cal gross minute, I talked on March 12th, 2021, Carol Grossman. It is always a pleasure to have you here on nuclear hot seat.

Karl Grossman

01:17:03

A pleasure always to be with you Libby on nuclear Hotsy

Libbe HaLevy

01:17:07

We’re going to be talking about nukes in space today, and you have been on this subject for more than three and a half decades. How did you first come upon the information?

Karl Grossman

01:17:20

Well, I was reading a department of energy newsletter and there was an article in it about two space shuttle shots in 1986, in which both the space shuttles, one being the challenger. In fact, what I carry up into space, plutonium fueled space probes, and I had before done my book cover up what you’re not supposed to know about nuclear power. And I was quite aware that plutonium has long been described as the deadliest of all radioactive substances. And you hear the talk about pounds of plutonium as fuel on these space probes. And the article went on that NASA and the department of energy and various national nuclear laboratories, Los Alamos, and Oak Ridge, and so forth. Had done studies about the impacts, the consequences, if there’d be an accident on these lunches. So I filed a freedom of information act request asking for what those studies concluded.

Karl Grossman

01:18:22

I’ve been writing for decades and decades on nuclear power. But the image I had of NASA was that it’s a, a push scoutish kind of agency. I mean, there was Neil Armstrong on the moon, an Eagle scout. And so was I an Eagle scout? So I kind of figured that, you know, maybe this is a different kind of federal agency. Wow. Was I incorrect? And I quickly found out how incorrect I was because instead of promptly and along the letter of the freedom of information act law provide me with information. Nothing came and the weeks past the months passed, it was a claim at one point that under the freedom of information act NASA, wouldn’t be required to provide highly technical information. And I had to respond that, that that was no exemption under foyer. And I had to appeal finally, after about 10 months, I get a bunch of documents and they spoke about accidents, all kinds of accidents on the launchpad and the lower atmosphere, the upper atmosphere.

Karl Grossman

01:19:29

It didn’t how to handle it because they claim that the odds of a catastrophic shuttle accident was one in a hundred thousand. And I mean, those odds are infinitesimal would seem that you’d have a, a serious accident in which plutonium was dispersed. And it was a few months later, I was on my way to teach my investigative reporting class. When I, I hear on the car radio, that the challenge I had blown up, this is January of 86, and I got stopped into an appliance store along the long island expressway. So that ghastly image of the challenge of blowing up and poor Chris McAuliffe’s parents sitting in their seats crying. I mean, so tragic. And, but I was thinking though, if it would have been the next mission in may of 86, when the plutonium shot was to be, it wouldn’t be six brave astronauts in a very brave teacher in space, Chris McCullough, who died, if that plutonium would have been released in the kind of explosion, the challenge or underwent depends where the wind would be blowing from.

Karl Grossman

02:20:38

I mean, Orlando is not far off. I mean, you wouldn’t want to go to Disney for maybe a couple of hundred years. And I can, in case I call the nation magazine, I’ve written for the nations for the years and said, did you folks know that the next mission of the challenge, it was to be a nuclear mission and they didn’t at all. And they asked me to write an editorial. I did, it was titled the lethal shuttle. That’s 1986 January. And I’ve been on this issue, this story, if you want to call it a story ever since,

Libbe HaLevy

02:21:08

Did NASA really believe that the chance was only one in 100,000,

Karl Grossman

02:21:14

It turns out that they brought a bunch of NASA scientists and engineers to the Marshall space flight center. And as one at a time, what do you think the likelihood of a catastrophic shuttle accident would be in one would say, well, very unlikely. One would say extremely unlikely. And they translated these words to numbers. I mean, it was scandalous, no empirical evidence. And that’s how they figured out one at a a hundred thousand, a few months after the challenge that catastrophe, the odds have one in a hundred thousand, what changed to one in 76? So, I mean, that w those are correct arts. I mean, there were about 150 shuttle launches in to met with disasters.

Libbe HaLevy

02:21:56

How is nuclear used in space? Is it propulsion? Is it weapons? Is there other ways that it’s involved?

Karl Grossman

02:22:05

Well, mainly it’s over the years, the way it’s been used. I mean, there’s been attempts to use nukes for propulsion. In fact, right now, a big push for nuclear propelled rockets to get to Mars. But the way it’s been used up to now involves radioisotope Thermo electric generators as a little technical, but so Tony, I’m 2 39, the kind of plutonium that’s used and I’m bombs. There’s the trigger in a hydrogen bomb that has a half-life of 24,300 years. So multiply that by 20. And you forget how long it’s radioactive, what they use in these space devices. So them 2 38, which has a far shorter, half-life like 88 years. And it’s, it’s hot was it’s breaking apart. It’s breaking down it’s disintegrating at a fairly rapid rate. And that heat is used to, it’s like a fairly complicated system to generate electricity for the electrical power. That’s what these RTGS on these space probes, would it be used for, to generate a few hundred Watts of electric power? They’d be propelled by chemical propulsion. Once the shuttle would be an orbit, then would I be able to release them and they’d fly off into space. So mainly it’s been RTGS radioisotope thermoelectric generators.

Libbe HaLevy

02:23:28

So we have a sense now of what we’re up against, what attempts have been made to put treaties in place to limit nuclear exposure in space.

Karl Grossman

02:23:41

None. I mean like zero, the outer space of 1967 prohibits the placement of weapons of mass destruction in space, but there’s really nothing limiting any country from using nuclear power in space.

Libbe HaLevy

02:24:00

So in other words, with every launch, from whatever country is putting a vehicle into space, there’s a potential for a nuclear component. And we are at danger from an accident happening.

Karl Grossman

02:24:17

It’s not just us, it’s anybody. In fact, one of the two books I’ve written on this issue is called the wrong stuff. The space programs, nuclear threat to our planet. It concerns then president Clinton, visiting Australia, he was on vacation in Hawaii. Wasn’t to go to Australia on a state visit the following day, but on the following day, the Mars 96 space probe or Russian space probe with pounds of plutonium on it was projected. It hadn’t broken out of orbit. It was seen as coming back down to earth, a breaking up in the atmosphere and landing aware Australia in the end, it landed on the Chilean Bolivian border. These things can land anywhere. I mean, it’s, it’s like a dark game with a clear payload using nuclear in space. To me, I mean, terrestrial nuclear is dangerous enough, but using nuclear in space. Well, just look at the record.

Karl Grossman

02:25:23

I mean, this is not a sky is falling exercise. I mean, as I’ve investigated the use of nuclear power in space, I’ve gone into, and to accidents that have occurred in the U S space program. The worst was a nap at nine eight accident in 1964. At that point, the us was launching satellites powered by these RTGS giving electric power, but in 64 and this snap nine eight launch, it didn’t achieve orbit. The satellite comes crashing back to earth breaks apart, disintegrates with the plutonium spread widely over the planet. Dr. John Gottman at the university of California at Berkeley and MD at PhD involved in some of the isolation of plutonium during the Manhattan project. I mean, he knew this, this area connected that disaster to a rise in lung cancer on earth, three out of about 30 us space, nuclear shots have resulted in accidents. The Soviets now, Russia, they’ve done a little over 60 and they’ve had including the Mars 96 phase probe, they’ve had six accidents, the worst being a cosmos satellite, which in 1978, came down on Canada around the great slave lake area of Canada, just spreading nuclear debris for over 300 miles. So, I mean, there’s a 10% failure rate with space nucleus shots to us. It’s a game of a space born Russian and us roulette

Libbe HaLevy

02:27:07

By the way, just a side note. But any time that I say we, in terms of being at the effect of plutonium from any of these space shots, I’m using the planetary, we have the human race. It’s not just we Americans, but it’s anybody who happens to live on this planet. Why is this being done? Why are we doing it? What is the rationale that makes this sound like a good idea to the people who are in charge of these programs?

Karl Grossman

02:27:38

There’s no good reason at all. For example, after the snap nine accident, NASA became a pioneer in solar photovoltaic energy. I mean, if you go to a book on solar power, look at the photo texts, these panels that take sunlight and create electricity out of sunlight, NASA Dede was a pioneer. And after that disaster began using photovoltaic panels on the satellites. I mean, all the satellites now were solar power. So it was the international space station in terms of space probes, NASA insisted, okay, we can use solar panels on satellites, but when we go out into space beyond the orbit of Mars, there’s not enough sunlight. Yeah, well actually NASA then totally contradicted itself. Finally had an engineering epiphany in 2011, and tried to send a space probe to Jupiter, way up beyond the orbit of Mars, Jupiter with its electric generation done by solar panels.

Karl Grossman

02:28:43

And let me note that Juno is still up there exploring Jupiter it’s electricity from solar panels above a planet where solar energy power from the sun is 100th of what it is on earth. There’s really no need. I mean, most recently NASA, and there was all kinds of hoopla among hear about this landed the perseverance Rover on Mars. You hardly saw any of the reporting on the perseverance landing that perseverance electricity, a hundred perseverance comes from our T G and our radio isotope Thermage perseverance had 10.6 pounds of plutonium, 2 38 on it. And this comes after a series of rovers on Mars getting their energy from solar panels, solar panels. So the big question I kinda asked after, I mean this back to 86, why are these folks doing it for start is you have to like the, oh and all the president’s men it’s said that deep throat tells Bob Woodward follow the money.

Karl Grossman

02:29:53

Who’s making money on this. And there was a little company called general electric, which was producing these RTGS at that time. Then you have these national nuclear laboratories, spinoffs of the Manhattan project, Los Alamos and Oak Ridge. And they want the money. They want these bucks coming in, providing grants to do research in space, nuclear power. So they have a vested interest. And then finally, what I got into was star wars. It turned out that star wars and this likely perseverance energy source was also in that time, not reported star wars was predicated on orbiting battle platforms and on the battle platforms with hypervelocity guns, particle beams, and laser weapons energized by nuclear reactors on those battle platforms, James Abramson, general James Abramson, the commander of the strategic defense initiative. He at one point said that without an extension cord down to earth, bringing up power for these weapons, we’re going to need nuclear power in Spain, we need nuclear reactors in space.

Karl Grossman

03:31:04

He, and he insisted now, how does this involve NASA and its activities? Well, NASA after being established in 1958 gear after Sputnik, as extensively as civilian agency realized pretty quickly where the big money is in Washington, DC, and that’s at the Pentagon and started to work together with the military, even though it was started as a civilian agencies, the shuttle in fact was 50 50 a civilian military vehicle space shot after space shot. The government uses the term, a dual purpose mission, a dual purpose to do what maybe a civilian purpose or a military, many of those shuttle shots and five or seven Colonel’s going up there. And when they came back, there was no press conference that was silenced because it was a, a military mission. So NASA also follow the money. Seeing that money emanates a lot of money from the Pentagon wanted to do nukes and still wants to do nuclear in space.

Karl Grossman

03:32:09

Just recently the national academies of science, medicine, and engineering put out a report advocating strongly advocating nuclear powered rockets. Now nuclear propel rockets for Mars, and then went on in this report. You can get it online, big sick Ford, 104 page report about synergies synergies between civilian and military in terms of the use of nuclear power and space. So that’s, you know, that’s how we’ve gotten where we are and there is no need or like the rovers. There is no need. I mean, there’s been important articles actually in the last year or so talking about how we could have colonies on the moon and Mars powered by solar while NASA has been talking in recent years about, oh, we need nuclear powered nuclear powered colonies on Mars and the moon. And then in terms of nuclear propulsion, again, it mostly has been RTGS, but in terms of actually propelling a rocket with nuclear power, and there was an attempt decades ago, it was called the Nerva N E R V a that a nerve to do this program of developing a nuclear propelled rocket.

Karl Grossman

03:33:25

Actually that got nowhere because the concern was there was no need for it. And then meanwhile, the us had tried to develop nuclear powered bombers. In other words, you could have a, B 47 up there with nuclear power as its propulsion source, and you wouldn’t have to scramble an aircrew. It would be up there all the time. And if we decided to begin it with nuke, the Soviet union, but then became to, well, what are we going to do about the pilots with a reactor on, on the Bama? How are we going to shield them while we can use led? That was the end of that project. And back to nuclear propulsion, there was an important story in the new scientist magazine, just last October, it was called the new age of sail and it begins relating the story of acts 17th century astronomer, Johann Capla observing the comments, always have their tails pointed away from the sun, no matter which direction they’re traveling, new scientists, an excellent magazine went on.

Karl Grossman

03:34:32

Speaking about the sun, produces a wind in space, and it could be harnessed if there’s particles of light streaming from the sun, constant low Lia flow of charged particles. So what’s being developed now for several years. So let’s sales. In fact, Japan launched its ikaros spacecraft in 2010 sailing in space, using energy from the sun, the new scientists, peace poke of scientists wanting to use these new techniques. So let’s say I was now just my law first. It was Mylar, but now there’s all kinds of other ideas to set a course. I’m quoting from the article four worlds currently far beyond our reach, namely the planets orbiting our nearest star alpha Centuri. So we can have satellites that are not going to be loaded with the plutonium that can fall on our heads. We can have rovers that wouldn’t end up. Imagine if that rocket carrying the perseverance up had at exploded on lawn. I mean, you could have plutonium all over the place in Florida. I mean, it’s very much like energy on earth and in terms of propulsion, we can in fact, explore the heavens as far as the alpha centaury and beyond with solar sales. But again, you follow the money, you follow the vested interest and you follow those who would make war using nuclear power,

Libbe HaLevy

03:36:05

Another subject, which is up, there’s been, there’s so many different directions. We can go with this, but space force. We are be quizzed by the former resident of the white house with this quote unquote, new branch of the military. What’s the status, what’s the danger. And what do we know about the current administration’s position towards it?

Karl Grossman

03:36:30

This space for us is really what that person in the white house. It’s an orange person, I think, in the white house for awhile, unfortunately. And he said, it’s not enough for the United States to have presence in space. We must dominate space. I mean, there’s one country we’re going to dominate space.

Libbe HaLevy

03:36:52

Isn’t that against the outer space treaty of 1967, that space was to be used only for peaceful purposes.

Karl Grossman

03:36:59

Yeah, it’s certainly in violation of the intent of the outer space treaty and the outer space treaty was put together by the United States, United Kingdom and the former Soviet union. And it’s now been signed onto, by most nations on earth. And it sets aside space as a global commons for peaceful purposes. However, it only restricts it only prohibits weapons of mass destruction. What our neighbor Canada has been trying to do for decades now, and Russia and China with Canada is to expand the outer space treaty to bar all weapons in space. And I’ve been at the United nations to see votes. And it’s called the Paris treaty prevention of an arms race in outer space, treaty Canada votes. Yes. China votes. Yes. Russia votes in this country after country votes. Yes. And guess what country votes? No, essentially the vetoing and they can act men of the Paris treaty at the UN.

Karl Grossman

03:37:57

So in fact, when you hear during the Trump time about, oh, we have to have a space force because China around brushed around, moving into space and militarily, that’s like not correct. And I’ve been to China, I’ve been to Russia a bunch of times. In fact, I was brought to Russia largely because of their racial Carson. They’re leading environmentalist, Alexa Yaba coffee was the environmental advisor to Yeltsin Gorbachev. And he had been for years against the use by the Soviet union and then Russia of nuclear and space. And he had read my stuff and that’s how I got invited to Russia. The first I ended up giving presentations, working with Alexa and stuff. But in any case, in speaking to diplomats from Russia, they do not want to blow their national treasury on deploying weapons in space. It’s not like purchasing a Bradley fighting vehicle jumping to about billions of dollars.

Karl Grossman

03:38:55

Likewise, the Chinese and they with our neighbor Canada, which does right it’s Canada. I’ve been trying to broaden the outer space treaty. But again, the us is no, no, no. And let me also know here, you know, where the strategy by the U S comes from it actually comes from, this is heavy duty stuff, but it comes from Nazi scientists after the war, the U S bird over it was called operation paperclip over a thousand Nazi scientist, Verna Von brown, who was his project, was the V2 rocket vengeance for the VI. He was brought over with a lot of his cohorts who worked on the V1 and the V2. And they ultimately, they went to the Redstone army arsenal in Alabama and they develop the Redstone rocket, which was the first year U S rocket capable of carrying a nuclear bomb, a nuclear weapon above him in the Nazi rocket program was general Walter Durenberger.

Karl Grossman

04:40:00

He supervised the Nazi rocket program and he comes over and he becomes a consultant to the us air force. And he writes a planning paper. This is back in 1947. In fact, 10 years before a Sputnik envisioning a system of hundreds of nuclear armed satellites, all orbiting a different aptitudes and angles. Each capable of reentering the atmosphere on command from earth to proceed to its target. And then the air force began work on Dawn burger’s idea of under the acronym. NAIC was for nuclear armed bombardment satellites. I’m a professor at state university of New York and an excellent book on the use of weapons and nuclear in space arming the heavens by Jack Manno, who has also been a professor at SUNY at the college for environmental science and forestry and Syracuse. And he writes before congressional hearing Dawn Berger insisted, and he laid out his, his vision and insisted the top space priority of the United States needs to be Kanca occupy keep at simply dominate space.

Karl Grossman

04:41:16

So the origin of our space program comes from a very, what would be the word, very evil, evil people. I mean, Verna Von brown, he went on became associate director of NASA. And what a bunch, I mean, these people should have been tried for crimes against humanity, not brought over to the United States to help develop our space program, civilian and military and plant a seed, which continues on and on these days, most recently with his US-based force, which if it’s let to go, let me say right now, Russia and China do not want to deploy weapons in space, but if the us does it, they’re going to do it. They’ve been very clear about we don’t want to, but if we have to, we’re going to do it. And if this is going to be the end game here and they do it, this US-based force is going to end up with weapons in space and the consequences over war involving space.

Karl Grossman

04:42:19

Imagine, again, going back to star wars, nuclear powered battle platforms, oh, above our heads and the Russians, the Chinese would probably have to do the same kind of thing. And imagine an exchange in the radioactive debris. I’m wonder for those listening to this broadcast who are like Trekkies thinking that I’m knocking the space program, I’m trying to have it big done, right? Because if this leads to war in space and radioactive debris coming, raining down on this planet beyond all the people that are gonna end up dead, that’s far beyond the snap, nine, eight plutonium debris, way beyond that, there’ll be so much debris. Some of it will come down, but some of it will be up in space for centuries, or if not more, we’re not going to get up and out to explore space. So in my view, I was so disappointed that Biden said he was going to stick with the space for us, but it should also be noted that the Democrats help get the national defense authorization act. This is a year and a half ago passed by Congress. Most Democrats voted for it, which contained the provision for a, a U S space for six, six branch of us armed forces that would have the us dominate dominate space.

Libbe HaLevy

04:43:43

All of this is of course, very deep and tremendously upsetting because it’s a potential future for all of us. And it seems to be rolling in that direction, if nothing is done to stop it, what in your estimation needs to be done and can be done actions that we can take to start turning this around and stopping?

Karl Grossman

04:44:05

Well, there’s some good people in office. For example, when the us was low, it did it, the Cassini space probe permission with like 72 pounds of plutonium and so forth. Congressman Jerry Nadler joined me. He had read my book, the wrong stuff. He had me come to Washington. He got together with other Congress people. We got a press conference in front of the Capitol saying that this is a terribly dangerous mission, which involved a fly by Cassini would whip by the earth, just a few hundred miles high. So we have some sun people, but again, Democrats in Congress voted very strongly for this space. For us. It has to be actioned by the grassroots. And I’ve always thought that that’s the way change occurs from the grassroots and the organization, which is here and people listening should join with. I was involved in its formation, the global network against weapons and nuclear power and space.

Karl Grossman

04:45:02

I was there in Washington, DC in 1992, when it was formed, Bruce, Gagnin a wonderful, organized the finest organizer I’ve ever known in my life. He learned from Cesar Chavez, from Cesar Chavez, how to organize is the coordinator. It’s truly a global network with members all over the world. Doing demonstrations is doing conferences, doing all kinds of peaceful things. To try to keep space for peace, keep space for peace. I mean, it’s bad enough on earth that we have war bad enough, but it shouldn’t go up into space. It’s bad enough on earth that we have nearly 500 nuclear power plants and one or another will be another Shinola. Another three mile island, another focus Schumer about every six, seven years. These things, these terrible disasters happened with enormous loss of life. Speaking of Dr. Jabra coffee and a grouping of European scientists did an important book on the consequences of the Chanel blacks in it, which calculate near a million people have died as a result of the fallout from Shinola, terrible enough to have nukes on earth and they all should be shut down. And we should go with safe, clean, renewable green power energy that we can live with. But nuclear power should not be, should not be overheaded. It should not be in space. It should not be anywhere.

Libbe HaLevy

04:46:33

There’s always so much that we can discuss with each other. And we do both before and after these interviews. We’ll have you back again soon, but for now, I want to thank you for the wealth of information, the terminal depression, and for being my guest this week on nuclear hot seat.

Karl Grossman

04:46:53

Again, it’s always a pleasure that you provide such important information to people

Libbe HaLevy

04:47:00

That was veteran environmental journalist author and professor Carl Grossman. We’ll have plenty of links posted on our website, nuclear hot seat.com under this episode, number 5 0 8 2, some of the resources that Carl mentioned during the interview, these will include Chernobyl consequences of the catastrophe for people and the environment. And Carl’s terrific book cover up what you are not to know about nuclear. If you want a basic grounding and what’s wrong with the industry and the technology coverup is the book to read. The links are to Amazon, which makes it easy for me to do, and I encourage you to order them through a local independent bookstore, if at all possible. And on a really happy note, Carl has agreed to join us here on nuclear, hot seat on a regular basis. And we look forward to sharing lots and lots more of his encyclopedic knowledge of all things nuclear with you in the coming months.

Libbe HaLevy

04:48:11

There’s always a lot of talk about what it takes to get young activists into the movement and the answer is pay them for the work and they will be able to do it and not have to worry about getting subsistence jobs. So that’s exactly what beyond the bomb is doing. They have something called the future. First fellowship for young people define young as you will, and here to tell us more about it is Rachel. She is a field organizer for beyond the bomb and a former winner of the future. First fellowship here. She explains not only what the fellowship is about and how to apply for it. She explains exactly what it is done to change her life. And we start with the basic information. What is beyond the bomb

Rachel Traczyk

04:49:00

Beyond the bomb is a grassroots organization that is trying to pass a no first use policy, which basically means that the United States would not launch it first attack against another nation. And it tries to do this by framing the argument in a way that brings intersectional perspectives and the human experience to the forefront of our advocacy

Libbe HaLevy

04:49:19

Beyond the bomb is offering something called the future. First fellowship

Rachel Traczyk

04:49:26

Beyond the bomb’s future. First fellowship is an opportunity to uplift new and upcoming voices in the nuclear sphere. What we try to do is we try to center intersectional activism at the part at the forefront of everything that we do. So for instance, I actually was part of their first inaugural cohort. And I came in not knowing much about nuclear weapons or anything like that. And beyond the bombs fellowship gave me the skills to not only grow as an activist, but become more involved within my community. And we’ve tried to extend this to the fellows where we believe we take a decentralized approach to organizing meaning that we believe that people know what best their community needs. They just need the skills and the competence and the tool set to do that. So really through this fellowship, our goal is to bring these new progressive voices into this movement and elevate these voices, giving them the skills that they need to be successful.

Libbe HaLevy

05:50:19

Who is this open to cool, are you looking for, to apply for this fellowship?

Rachel Traczyk

05:50:24

The beyond the bomb fellowship is open to anyone who is a young intersectional activist. We really want people who have an understanding of intersectionality and the broader context that these issues do fit into. We’re open to applicants of almost any background. We’ve had fellows in the past that are from high school community colleges or college student graduates. We’re open to anyone. We just want to uplift voices of people who want a better and safer future and are willing to have the passion and the drive to work towards that every day.

Libbe HaLevy

05:50:56

So two points of definition here, how do you define young? Because in this movement, anybody under sixties looks pretty young to us. And a little more clarity about what you mean by intersectionality.

Rachel Traczyk

05:51:10

Intersectionality is we want to acknowledge the not only people ourselves are intersectional with our identities that we attach. So for instance, one person is composed of a multitude of identities, whether they are race, class, gender intersectionality is such an important thing as a movement to hold at the forefront of it. But also we want the movement itself to be intersectional. So a lot of people don’t come into the nuclear sphere, talking about nuclear weapons as just nuclear weapons. They come in because they’ve been brought in through climate justice or women’s rights. And me, myself, I was brought in because I saw what had done to my community as a new Mexican with the frontline communities and down when communities of New Mexico. So we want to highlight the different things can bring people into this space. It doesn’t always have to be policy. It doesn’t always have to be just one track. And I think that’s true that we really build a movement that’s really strong, and it’s going to create a better future advocating for these issues.

Libbe HaLevy

05:52:08

What has the program given to you or done for you as an example?

Rachel Traczyk

05:52:14

That is a very hard question because to say that this program changed my life forever is honestly an understatement. The thing that I got the most out of it was before this I had gone in and nuclear weapons were something that wasn’t really talked about at all in my life. They were just brushed over in high school education and just seeing the way that nuclear weapons had impacted my community of New Mexico. So the people of New Mexico were the first people to see the impact of a nuclear weapon from the Trinity testing site. The government reported my home is remote and uninhabited, but there were 70,000 people living in the area at the time. Most of these were not wonder evacuated in some ways, living as close as 11 miles to the Trinity testing site, beyond the bomb and its fellowship gave me the skills to not only mobilize my community and get involved, but also work on a larger scale towards passing these policies that cannot only help and protect people, but that are just bright because a nuclear weapon would result in the end of society and the end of the world, as we know it, and they aren’t talked about enough.

Rachel Traczyk

05:53:16

So it not only gave me the skills to become a better activist, but it also helped me really get in touch with my community. And at the end of the day, all I want to do is help people and through helping my community. I think this fellowship pushed me to grow as an individual and as a person,

Libbe HaLevy

05:53:30

This sounds like a fabulous opportunity. How can someone who identifies with the parameters you’ve already put forward, apply for this?

Rachel Traczyk

05:53:39

The fellowship application is available through our website. The deadline to apply is April 30th. And what we do require for people to apply is a cover letter. And a writing example, we do ask it is optional for a letter of recommendation, a resume, and we do have essay questions. People can answer, those are optional. However, and of course, if anyone ever has any questions, I can give you my email and they can reach out to me or trust in about it.

Libbe HaLevy

05:54:07

We will link both to the website and to your personal email, if people have questions and for now, Rachel, Tracy, thanks so much for being a young person who has joined in our movement and is dedicated in the way you are and for being on nuclear hot seat this week.

Rachel Traczyk

05:54:24

Thank you so much.

Libbe HaLevy

05:54:26

And thank you, Rachel Tracy, for all the good work you have already done, and especially all the good work you will be doing in the coming years. We will have a link up to the application process AF nuclear hot seat.com under this episode, number 5 0 9, and there will also be contact information for Rachel. Should you want to have a more personal conversation about what this award is all about? We look forward to a deluge of young listeners applying for the job and talking with you in the coming years about the work that you are doing. This has been nuclear hot seat for Tuesday, March 16th, 2021 material for this week show has been researched and compiled from nuclear-news.net to own renard.wordpress.com beyond nuclear, the international campaign to abolish nuclear weapons, greenpeace.org, Japan times.co dot J P hommie that’s C O dot K R Japan today.com the bulletin.org Kyoto news.net, Seattle times.com Hindustan times.com and H K dot O R dot J P counterpunch.org.

Libbe HaLevy

05:55:44

Korea, harold.com. saki.com. cincinnati.com M live.com. Current artists.com news break.com. Review journal.com. msn.com. Monroe news.com. Euro news.com, mirror.co.uk. The ferret dot Scott news.ac the smug liars and a soul dead cubicle drones that write the propaganda press releases and talking points for world nuclear news and the captured and compromised by the industry. They’re supposed to be regulating nuclear regulatory commission. Thanks all of you for listening and a big shout out to nuclear hot seat listeners and followers around the world in 123 countries on six continents and counting as well as those who are listening to us on broadcast through the Pacifica audio port network. Hey, don’t miss a single episode of nuclear hot seat. You can have it delivered to your email inbox every week, by going to nuclear hot seat.com. Look for the big yellow box and sign up with your first name and an email address.

Libbe HaLevy

05:56:53

No spam, just solid nuclear information. Once a week, you can also catch the shell on any of your favorite podcast formats. Now you’re in places that I’m not, and I need your help. So if you have a story lead, a hot tip or a suggestion of someone to interview, send an email to info@nuclearhotseat.com. And if you appreciate weekly verifiable news updates about nuclear issues around the world, take a moment to go to nuclear, hot seat.com. Look for that big red button, click on it, follow the prompts and know that anything you can do will help. And we will really appreciate your support. This episode of nuclear hot seat is copyright 2021 Libbe HaLevy and hardest street communications, all rights reserved, but fair use allowed as long as proper attribution is provided. And by that, I mean not just a link, but please mention the show by name. It will go a long way to helping us let people know that this is a resource and it is available. This is Leiby Halevi of heart history, communications, the heart of the art of communicating, reminding you that what you don’t know about nuclear can hurt you. And it probably already has. Sorry about that. There you go. That is your nuclear wake-up call. So please, whatever you do, don’t go back to sleep because we are all in the nuclear hot seat,

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05:58:28

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