NH #544: Nuclear-Free Earth: No Weapons, No Reactors - Possible? Karl Grossman​​​​‌‍​‍​‍‌‍‌​‍‌‍‍‌‌‍‌‌‍‍‌‌‍‍​‍​‍​‍‍​‍​‍‌​‌‍​‌‌‍‍‌‍‍‌‌‌​‌‍‌​‍‍‌‍‍‌‌‍​‍​‍​‍​​‍​‍‌‍‍​‌​‍‌‍‌‌‌‍‌‍​‍​‍​‍‍​‍​‍‌‍‍​‌‌​‌‌​‌​​‌​​‍‍​‍​‍‌​‌‌​‌‌‌‌‍‌​‌‍‍‌‌‍​‍‍‌‍‍‌‌‌‌‍​‌‍​‌‍‌‌‌‍​‌‌​‍‌‍‍​‌‍‌‌​‌​‌‍‌‌‌‍​‌‌‌​​‍‍‌‍​‌‍‌‍‌​‍‌‍‍‌‌‍‍‌‌​‌‍‌‌‌‍‍‌‌​​‍‌‍‌‌‌‍‌​‌‍‍‌‌‌​​‍‌‍‌‌‍‌‍‌​‌‍‌‌​‌‌​​‌​‍‌‍‌‌‌​‌‍‌‌‌‍‍‌‌​‌‍​‌‌‌​‌‍‍‌‌‍‌‍‍​‍‌‍‍‌‌‍‌​​‌‌‍‌‌‌​​‌‍‍‌‌​‌‍‌‍‌​‌‍‌‌​‍‌​‍​​‍​​‌​‍​​‍‌‌​‌‍‌‌​​‌‍‌‌​‌‌‍‌‌‌​​‌‍‍‌‌​‌‍‌‍‌​‌‍‌‌​‍‌​​‌‍​‌‌‌​‌‍‍​​‌‌‌​‌‍‍‌‌‌​‌‍​‌‍‌‌​‌‍​‍‌‍​‌‌​‌‍‌‌‌‌‌‌‌​‍‌‍​​‌‌‍‍​‌‌​‌‌​‌​​‌​​‍‌‌​​‌​​‌​‍‌‌​​‍‌​‌‍​‍‌‌​​‍‌​‌‍‌​‌‌​‌‌‌‌‍‌​‌‍‍‌‌‍​‍‍‌‍‍‌‌‌‌‍​‌‍​‌‍‌‌‌‍​‌‌​‍‌‍‍​‌‍‌‌​‌​‌‍‌‌‌‍​‌‌‌​​‍‍‌‍​‌‍‌‍‌​‍‌‍‌‍‍‌‌‍‌​​‌‌‍‌‌‌​​‌‍‍‌‌​‌‍‌‍‌​‌‍‌‌​‍‌​‍​​‍​​‌​‍​​‍‌‍‌‌​‌‍‌‌​​‌‍‌‌​‌‌‍‌‌‌​​‌‍‍‌‌​‌‍‌‍‌​‌‍‌‌​‍‌‍‌​​‌‍​‌‌‌​‌‍‍​​‌‌‌​‌‍‍‌‌‌​‌‍​‌‍‌‌​‍‌‍‌​​‌‍‌‌‌​‍‌​‌​​‌‍‌‌‌‍​‌‌​‌‍‍‌‌‌‍‌‍‌‌​‌‌​​‌‌‌‌‍​‍‌‍​‌‍‍‌‌​‌‍‍​‌‍‌‌‌‍‌​​‍​‍‌‌

Libbe HaLevy

00:00:01

After the atomic bombs, incinerated, Hiroshima, and Nagasaki, and all those people, a horrified world pushed back against the new technology and the U S sought to find some justifications for continuing to develop nuclear, anything, and everything. That’s when president Dwight Eisenhower addressed the UN general assembly on December 8th, 1953, the day after the anniversary of the Pearl Harbor attack and introduce the idea of a peaceful Adam one that would transform the horror of the bomb into a benefit for all mankind, peaceful, Adam, an oxymoron. That sounds like a good idea on the surface until you hear a genuine expert, a journalist who has been covering nuclear issues for decades, tell you

Karl Grossman

00:00:52

Importantly, there’s no peaceful. Adam. It’s two sides of the same coin. And if frankly, if our children and their children and future generations are going to make it artists survive, we really have to outlook outlook, nuclear technology, put it back in the bottle, and that can be done

Libbe HaLevy

00:01:12

Well. Now that we’ve all experienced. What a lack of peace from that atomic nuclear technology continues to inflict upon the world, both through weapons and reactor technology. You start to get a clearer picture of the nature of that devastating seat that we all share

Announcer

00:01:33

Clear hot seat. What are those people thinking? Nuclear hot seat. What have those boys been breaking their hot seat? Ms. Sinking, our time to act is shrinking, but visceral Hotsy, it’s a bomb.

Libbe HaLevy

00:02:04

Welcome to nuclear hot seat. The weekly international news magazine, keeping you up to date on all things nuclear from a different perspective. My name is Leiby Halevi. I am the producer and host as well as a survivor of the nuclear accident at three mile island from just one mile away. So I know what can happen when those nuclear so-called experts get it wrong. This week, we talk with Carl Grossman, a veteran journalist who has been covering nuclear issues since before they were rebranded from being called atomic issues. The word atomic, having tested poorly in the public mind. You see Carl shares a vision of a world without nukes, any nukes, peaceful, warlike, or otherwise with compelling reasons for why this is a path we must follow. We will also have nuclear from around the world, numb nuts of the week for outstanding nuclear bone headedness, and more honest nuclear information then will be discussed even at my Thanksgiving table.

Libbe HaLevy

00:03:11

All of it coming up in just a few moments today is Tuesday, November 23rd, 2021. And here is this week’s nuclear news from a different perspective here in the U S in Virginia, for those who live within a 10 mile radius of dominion energies, north Ana and Siri nuclear power stations know that the alert sirens will soon be replaced with wireless emergency alerts that will come directly to a cell phone. The transition will take place as of March 1st, 2022, but without this audio alert system, what has to happen with people who don’t have a cell phone, maybe their cell phone has drained the power, maybe they’re driving and don’t answer, or they choose to ignore the phone. There’s no other backup system and no way for them to know that perhaps their lives are in immediate danger. And how will local residents find out about this change in policy?

Libbe HaLevy

00:04:07

They’re going to receive snail mail notifications, also radio and digital ads, both of which are easy to miss. Why not keep the old system operating as you Institute the new and keep it in place. This is truly numnuts adjacent in Georgia. The cost of two nuclear reactors being built in that state is now $28.5 billion. More than twice the original price tag. And they’re not done yet. Opponents have long warned at Blanton based Southern company. That overruns would be sky high. Liz coil executive director of consumer advocacy group, Georgia watch said the price tag is outrageous, but predictable. When the build was approved in 2012, the first electricity was supposed to be generated in 2016. Southern company has been whining that it has to reduce substandard construction work and contractors aren’t meeting deadlines, but Hey, who’s supposed to be overseeing them. Huh? No electricity is suspected of being generated until third quarter 2020.

Libbe HaLevy

00:05:15

And sometime between April and June of 2023 for each of the reactors and exactly how many solar wind and geothermal genuinely renewable energy sources could have been built with that kind of money tribes, indigenous groups and conservation organization have filed a petition to strengthen federal mining rules, to safeguard critically important lands across the west and Alaska, including sacred lands in their cultural resources, vital wildlife habitat and invaluable water resources inciting the harmful effects of uranium mining, vice chairman. Matthew put a soy Sr of the Havasu tribe near the grand canyon said each day. Uranium mining threatens contamination of Havasu Creek, which is the sole water source that provides life to supine village. Our tribal Homeland located at the bottom of the grand canyon without this precious resource, our tribe and our Homeland will be destroyed. Uranium poses, a serious and irreversible threat to our survival.

Libbe HaLevy

00:06:21

As a people, their petition was filed on September 16th with the U S department of the interior bill gates and Warren buffet have teamed up to launch the first small modular nuclear reactors pitching states, including Wyoming and Washington, but scientists and activists are pushing back hard. Michael Emam professor of atmospheric science at Penn state university said bill gates has continually downplayed the role of proven, safe, reliable energy technologies in decarbonizing our economy playing up instead more dangerous and risky technology like geo and nuclear Yon Haverkamp of Greenpeace said it is misguided and dangerous because it leads us down the wrong path, the obstacles to meaningful climate action. Aren’t technological. At this point, they’re political. These small modular nuclear reactors are referred to as PowerPoint reactors because presentations look good, but there has not been a single model yet built, let alone tested and proven out. So what gates buffet and others are saying is not verifiable tested, let alone scalable.

Libbe HaLevy

00:07:35

And even if everything goes according to schedule, which given nuclear, it never does. Even gates admits that the first of these would not even be up and running until at the earliest 2030. And we need climate solutions. Now solar wind geothermal conservation, there will be two articles dealing with this issue, especially the pitch going on in Washington state up on our website, nuclear hot seat.com. This episode is number 5 44, 2 other articles that we have links to one from the Seattle times on nuclear power plant operators want to run for eight decades, but a federal lab in Washington state found critical gaps in knowledge about how reactors age, and it repeats a call for autopsies to be performed on close down nuclear reactors. The other link is to the article I gave my baby tooth to science project Sunshine’s role in the limited test ban treaty and cutting edge pollution research.

Libbe HaLevy

00:08:37

It’s by two of our all-stars Robert Alvarez and Joseph Ghana, and we will link to it, or you can find it yourself on either radiation.org or at the bulletin of the atomic scientists over to Japan, where we’ve just learned that between the 13th and 15th of August of this year, a submarine volcano of August Solara islands erupted about 800 miles away from Tokyo and 900 miles from Fukushima. This eruption the largest, since the end of the second world war produced between 100 and 500 million cubic meters of pumice stones. And those stones are already covering the beaches of other islands at Fukushima Tokyo electric power company TEPCO is being forced to build shielding walls in the port of the plant. As the spent fuel pools of reactors five and six, still depend on sea water to cool them. Pumice stones may damage the sea water intake equipment of the coolant system.

Libbe HaLevy

00:09:38

And the original shielding facility has been left crippled since the two NAMI on March 11th, 2011 in Fukushima prefecture, evacuated, eager to finally returned to their homes near the remains of the Fukushima nuclear plant have been thrown into confusion over the way evacuation orders will be lifted. The town accepted a boundary that cuts across the mochi neighborhood of Oklahoma, creating a livable enclave, surrounded on all sides by a no entry area. Residents from the enclave will be able to return to their homes, but their neighbors, even on the other side of the street could be prohibited from returning until the end of this decade. As Koichi Sasaki head of the mochi community explains radiation levels are more or less the same on the inside and outside of the reconstruction base area. While officials in Tokyo were called upon to cleanup and lift evacuation orders across all areas of the town, the pleas of the people were in vain over to Europe, where in the wake of the cop 26 climate conference in Scotland, nuclear power battle lines have been drawn.

Libbe HaLevy

01:10:50

France took the lead where French president Emmanuel Elma Cron as part of his France 2030 plan for reindustrialization announced that reinventing nuclear power was placed as the first objective in that plan, pledging 1 billion euros, the equivalent of 1.2 billion us dollars allocated to demonstrate small nuclear reactor technology. On the other side, Germany’s acting environment and nuclear safety minister Svenya Scholz reiterated her opposition to nuclear powers inclusion in the EDU’s green financing plans saying the upcoming government coalition refuses being placed in front of a fait accompli. The EU is in the process of determining whether nuclear is going to be considered green energy. In other words, renewable energy and a recipient of untold amounts of funds. Joining Germany to urge the European commission to keep nuclear energy out of EU. Future finance rules are Austria, Luxembourg, Portugal, and Denmark representatives of the five countries banded together to sign a resolution, which said in part nuclear power is incompatible with the EU taxonomy regulations do no significant harm principle and added.

Libbe HaLevy

01:12:14

We have plenty of evidence of how dangerous nuclear power can be. Last week, we reported on a story out of Japan that lake on pneuma showed pollution of radioactive cesium, 1 37 mistakenly stating that it was going to be radioactive for 30 years, the half-life of Caesium. Whereas the true number is 10 times that, which is 300 years now, as if calling the bluff on that lie. China’s foreign ministry has asked Japan why it won’t release Fukushima’s water that they’re threatening to release into the Pacific. Why would they release it into their own lakes? If it’s really harmless? The ministry asked is the discharge of contaminated water from the Fukushima nuclear plant really inevitable, or is Japan just going its own way for its selfish reasons? That’s a really good question. And now for yet another example of nuclear bone headedness, here’s

Libbe HaLevy

01:13:20

I think in the nuclear industry’s never-ending quest to disassociate themselves from the deadly radioactive mess that they create with their nuclear power reactors among other sources, they always try to locate the nuclear waste dumps in small communities that looked like they could use a short-term short-sighted economic boost. They found that bamboozling, the local population is helped if they have some community worker dedicated to implanting their twisted propaganda in the minds and hearts of unsuspecting locals case in point plans to dispose of Britain’s nuclear waste south pile underneath the Irish sea off the UKs Cumbrian coast, 240 miles Northwest of London. That campaign for building the latest in nuclear waste pit toilets will soon be aided and abetted by a propaganda flunky who will be hired and paid for by the Columbia city council that’s right, their tax dollars at work. The council has posted a want ad for what they call a nuclear engagement coordinator that person’s role will be quote to support the council’s engagement in partnerships with government industry, business and community stakeholders, to find a willing host community and suitable site for a geological disposal facility for longterm management of higher activity, radioactive waste as a further c’mon that person gain opportunities to gain experience in a range of areas from nuclear policy to climate change or economic development and oh yes, unstated, but still intended selling your soul and earning the condemnation of any friends and neighbors down through the generations who survive this invitation of the forever contamination of your land and water.

Libbe HaLevy

01:15:15

This is all part of the new Custer’s ongoing campaign to kick the radioactive waste can down the road to somewhere they don’t live by hiring a Judas goat from the local populace who sees this as a means of moving ahead in the world, if not shortening one’s life, Hey, pay in the UK is between 27 and 29 and a half thousand pounds, meaning 37,000 to 40,000 and a half us dollars. But then again, how much do the cancer treatments cost for you, your family, your neighbors, and beyond what about the emotional damage? The DNA is that anywhere in the job description? Nah, that’s because this is just another example of the nuclear industry’s game plan for increasing their profits while avoiding your consequences. And that’s why Cumbria city council and your overlords at radioactive waste management. You are this week’s

Announcer

01:16:17

Okay, your hot seat

Libbe HaLevy

01:16:22

We’ll have this week’s featured interview in just a moment, but first Thanksgiving as a celebration, it can be highly controversial, especially for those who have indigenous heritage. Those of us who have indigenous friends or just people who are aware of the ongoing suppression and persecution of the people of the nations that are native to this land, to be clear, I don’t use the day to commemorate pilgrims or the genocide they engendered. I take it as a time to gather with good friends and be grateful that we made it through the past year. When so many of us did not. I’m also grateful that the numnuts who promote and condone nuclear have not yet completely contaminated the biosphere or blown us into oblivion. I give thanks for the amazing people. I’ve had the opportunity to meet interview and share with all of you. And that digital technology allows me to produce this program, disseminate it, amplify the anti-nuclear message and do what I can to counteract the madness that is the nuclear military industrial complex.

Libbe HaLevy

01:17:30

And of course I’m deeply grateful for all of you, the listeners who care enough to want to know the truth of what the nuclear industry has really been up to. So if you are thankful for having nuclear hot seat to turn to for the nuclear news, you won’t get from mainstream media right now would be the time to support us with a donation. Show your thanks in a tangible way, just go to nuclear, hot seat.com and click on the big red donate button to help us with a donation of any size that’s where you can set up a monthly donation as little as $5. The same as a cup of coffee, and a nice tip here in the U S will help us continue to bring the show to you every week. So if you value nuclear seat and want to help us continue do what you can now and know that however much you can help be at Thanksgiving or any other day, you have my gratitude.

Libbe HaLevy

01:18:26

Now, here is this week’s featured interview. Here’s this week’s featured interview. According to Wikipedia, Carl Grossman is an author and journalism professor at the state university of New York college. At old Westbury. He hosts the TV program in viral closeup is the author of six books and writer of numerous magazine, newspaper, and internet articles. But that doesn’t even come close to describing the full range of Carl’s talents, abilities and accomplishments. Kyle Grossman has been covering nuclear issues for over 50 years. And in terms of knowing how things came about and where the bodies are buried, that’s a metaphor. We hope nobody does it better. He has been an important early and consistent supporter of my work with nuclear hot seat. And we talk with him here about the need to make earth a nuclear free zone. I talked with Carl Grossman on January 12th, 2020, Carol Grossman. It’s always a joy to have you with us here on nuclear hot seat,

Karl Grossman

01:19:28

A pleasure to be with you Libby, even though the subject is rather a and

Libbe HaLevy

01:19:33

Carol, you have often written and spoken on the idea that the only realistic way to secure a future for the world without nuclear war is for the entire planet to become a nuclear free zone. What do you mean by bad?

Karl Grossman

01:19:47

Well, the United nations back in 1975, designated major parts of the earth, the entireties of Africa and south America, the south Pacific as nuclear free zones, where there would not be nuclear weapons. What I think needs to be done is that the entire planet has to be declared a nuclear free zone, but importantly, not just justice, it’s a strong enough word here, not just nuclear weapons, but nuclear power as well because the horrific threat of nuclear war comes to us from this double-sided nuclear weapons and nuclear power, because any, any country with a reactor with a nuclear reactor has the well, the train personnel and the material, the plutonium that nuclear reactor produce to have an atomic weapon. Indeed India got the bomb in 1974, how Canada supplied a reactor to India for peaceful purposes and the us atomic energy commission trained Indian engineers and lo and behold India had nuclear weapons. So this importantly, there’s no peaceful. Adam, it’s two sides of the same coin. And if frankly, if our children and their children and future generations are going to make it artists survive, we really have to outlook outlook nuclear technology and put it back in the bottle. And that can be done. When

Libbe HaLevy

02:21:34

I say that can be done. Putting the genie back in the bottle is one of those things that people think is not possible with nuclear, that we’ve crossed a line. Is there a precedent for taking a dangerous technology and dialing it back so that the danger does not exist anymore?

Karl Grossman

02:21:53

Yeah, there’s, there’s a clear precedent. And that was the outlawing of poison gas of chemical warfare. And that came after world war II and the horrific impacts of the use of chlorine gas and mustard gas when they killed thousands and thousands of soldiers on both sides of the conflict. So after world war II, people realized that chemical warfare is outrageous. It’s horrific. It must be outlawed. And there was the Geneva protocol of 1925 and the chemical weapons convention of 1933 and made outlawed chemical warfare and to a large degree, not a hundred percent, but to a large degree that prohibition has held. And I feel that before we have a nuclear war though, Hiroshima and Nagasaki should have given us a pretty good idea about what nuclear weapons can do. We must outlook just outdoor nuclear weaponry. And as I say, importantly too, is to outlaw nuclear power at the same time.

Karl Grossman

02:23:05

I mean, a person who understood this ironically was a, oh, the person who was considered the father of the us nuclear Navy, Admiral Hyman Rickover. He also was in charge of the construction of the first nuclear power plant in the United States, shipping toward Pennsylvania. And somehow he must’ve had an epiphany. And after decades of being this big booster of nuclear technology, retired from the Navy and he made a speech. In fact, you can read this speech online to a congressional committee in which he said that 2 billion years ago, it was impossible to have any life on earth. There was some much radiation on earth. You couldn’t have any life. Then gradually the amount of radiation on this planet. I’m quoting Rick over here, not Greenpeace and probably in the entire system reduced and made it possible for some form of life to begin. And he went on by utilizing nuclear power.

Karl Grossman

02:24:09

We are creating something which nature tried to destroy to make life possible. Every time you produce radiation, a horrible force is unleashed. Still can hear about the efficient products produced by the breaking apart of the Adam, the splitting of the atom. And in some cases, Rick, over went on these hiring deficient products. These essentially these are a return of the very poisons that existed billions of years ago, which prohibited life from existing on earth. In some cases there’ll be around for billions of years. And there says Rick over, I think the human race is gone to wreck itself and not to be too anthropomorphic. It ain’t just people it’s life on earth. I mean, they say cockroaches are capable of absorbing hundreds of times, the radioactivity that a human being can absorb, but I don’t know if we want cockroaches to inherit the earth. And then he goes on.

Karl Grossman

02:25:13

Well, he talks about having an international meeting, first outlawed, nuclear weapons. And then we outlaw, this is Rick over nuclear reactors too. And he says, in terms of nuclear weapons and the guy was an Admiral, it was an Annapolis graduate. The lesson of history is when a war starts, every nation will ultimately use whatever weapon has been available. That that is a lesson learned time. And again, therefore we must expect if another war a serious war breaks out, we will use nuclear energy in some form. And again, quoting Rick over. We will probably destroy ourselves. I mean, the fact is the reality is that nuclear war is not winnable. This whole notion that we’ve lived through for decades of mutually assured destruction, that we have this huge nuclear arsenal, thousands of weapons that Russian Sev thousands of weapons. And if there’s an exchange, we destroy each other.

Karl Grossman

02:26:20

And that somehow was thought to block nuclear war, frankly ever since Hiroshima and Nagasaki ever since the creation of atomic weapon room by the skin of our teeth, by the skin of our teeth, we have made it, there has been a number of well accidents, which could have kicked in a nuclear. Now with this Trump administration, you have a president that’s Trump who’s open to the use of nuclear weapon rigs. He said that we have, why don’t we use them a few months ago, he was talking about Afghanistan. And he was saying, well, if they want to take out Afghanistan and a couple of weeks, I could kill 10 million people. I mean, how was he going to kill 10 million people in a couple of weeks? It would be nuclear weaponry. So we have a situation now, which, oh, it has put the doomsday clock not to sound too apocalyptic, but that’s what we’re dealing with.

Karl Grossman

02:27:22

Just a few minutes from midnight. It’s it’s as bad as it’s ever been. And I believe we have to, I mean, some people might think this isn’t practical. So some people might think it’s too radical that we can put the genie back in the bottle. But I think that’s the wrong things people have done can be undone when it’s understood that it was so wrong. And in the case of nuclear technologies so dangerous. And so, so awful, we’ve been trying, we kind of succeeded, but it ain’t going to last too long with a, a carrot and stick approach, right? Rewarding certain nations. If they don’t pursue nuclear weaponry, we provide them with a carrot. And then meanwhile, there’ll be a stick if you go towards nuclear weapon weapons. But as the same time we have embraced this, this myth, this big chunk of bologna about the peaceful atom.

Karl Grossman

02:28:25

There’s no peaceful Adam and a country with a nuclear plant. As I say, with a reactor, because reactors in the process efficient produce. In fact, they produce hundreds of pounds of plutonium a year as a by-product of vision, the Nagasaki bomb incidentally at, but 20 pounds of plutonium. So whether it’s a, it’s a nuclear power plant, which the Trump administration wants to see built, in fact, a bunch of them in Saudi Arabia or whether it’s locally about, I just saw a piece about Uganda moving ahead to develop nuclear power plants with Russian support, any country, which has a nuclear power plant, a nuclear reactor has the trained personnel like those Indian engineers who were trained by our then atomic energy commission and the material, the plutonium to build a nuclear weapons. So there’s no atoms for peace. Dwight Eisenhower, president Eisenhower made a speech at the United nations in 1953, which kicked off this atoms for peace baloney program that okay, we don’t like nuclear war, but Adams for I can’t, it’s two sides of the same coin. So back to what I was saying, that the only frankly practical way, and I don’t believe it’s radical. I think it’s what we need is for the planet, the whole planet, we have to work for this. It’s not going to happen tomorrow or next week, but we got to work and work hard on this to abolish, to abolish nuclear weaponry. And at the same time, eliminate abolish nuclear power, nuclear technology, and to survive and to live

Libbe HaLevy

03:30:15

I’m in complete agreement with you on this, the nuclear industry is putting a lot of money and a PR portion talking points into its newest technology, small modular nuclear reactors, as though they are somehow different, somehow cleaner, safer, and that they are going to be the saviors of the climate crisis in your estimation, how accurate or honest is that claim and would this new technology, the small modular nuclear reactors and have the same profile in terms of, as it’s been said, having a bomb in the basement, having in its waste stream, the plutonium that could then be utilized as a bomb.

Karl Grossman

03:30:59

Yeah, well the small modular reactors, all these, the new improved nukes of one sort or another that they all produce enormous amounts of nuclear waste. They were all subject to accidents. They all involve. And Rick over, he used the word, which is, which is central here, radioactivity. I mean, it’s like, well, what was during the Clinton campaign that slogan a new version of it would be, it’s not the economy stupid, it’s radioactivity stupid. It’s the radioactivity produced by this machine or is it as Rick Ovis as we have to outlaw, we must outdoor nuclear reactors, nuclear power plants. And after that, these folks and the nuclear establishment, and it’s the nuclear industry, it’s, it’s Westinghouse and general electric. And it’s these huge national nuclear laboratories like Los Alamos and Oak Ridge. And essentially got their start during the Manhattan project to build weapons, to build atomic weapons during world war II, they were so scared that the Nazis were going to build atomic bombs.

Karl Grossman

03:32:12

And because fishing had been done in late 38 in Germany. So it was a notion of fighting fire with fire. And so as huge establishment, a nuclear establishment, employing hundreds of thousands, billions was spent at the end of the war. You had created a vested interest. How are these folks going to keep their jobs? How are general electric and Westinghouse, which became the Coke and Pepsi of nuclear power, 80% of nuclear plants worldwide, or of GE manufacturer or design. I mean, we can build more nuclear weapons. And under Edward teller of the super was built. In fact had got his own national laboratory Lawrence Livermore to build the hydrogen bomb. You can sell an atomic bomb or a hydrogen bomb even to an ally, to France in England. What can be done with nuclear technology to perpetuate this establishment? And they thought of the kind of nuclear powered airplanes, nuclear rockets, food, or radiation to the zap potatoes.

Karl Grossman

03:33:20

You can eat a potato or a strawberry 20 years after they they’d be picked. And then it was nuclear power plants, nuclear power plants too. I mean, it’s the most dangerous way to boil water ever conceived using Fishkin. So there was this nuclear establishment created out of the Manhattan project and they’ve lied like they’ve breathed. I mean, there’s nuclear Pinocchios through the years. It’s been one claim after it. I remember when a shipping port was first opened. This is back in 57 Louis stress who was chairman of the atomic energy commission said that nuclear power would be electricity too cheap to meter. That’s not. So, I mean, there’s two nuclear plants I’ll make two nuclear plants, thankfully being built. I mean, there was supposed to be many at this time in the United States, each one is to cause down in Georgia $13.5 billion where I live, I live on long island in New York, the Shoreham nuclear plant, and a book I wrote about Shoreham and the other, almost a dozen nuclear power plants that the long island lighting company wanted to build on long island.

Karl Grossman

03:34:34

It wanted to create a nuclear park out of long island as effects Emily. I print the original press release from 1966, for sure. And Loco says it will be in the 65 to $75 million range. Well, it turns out it was stopped 6.5 to $7.5 billion range, grassroots opposition and governmental opposition stopped. Sure. It was completed. It was constructed, was stopped from going into commercial operation. And the other was seven to 11. Nuclear plants planned for long island were prevented from being constructed from being built. And then there was two nuclear reactors at Brookhaven national laboratory. It was the laboratory set up by the folks at the Manhattan project that would focus on civilian uses of nuclear technology. Very, very tied actually to the long island nuclear push when the shore and project first began. It’s not just the nuclear industry, also the nuclear establishment within government and they’ve lied and they’ve lied and they’ve lied to promote their nuclear establishment for jobs.

Karl Grossman

03:35:49

And for as I note, Westinghouse and GE wanted to keep busy with contracts and so forth and with nuclear work. So when it comes to the small modular reactors or any of this other bologna that the, the nuclear establish wants to throw at us, it’s tobacco science, it’s a tobacco industry, sciences it’s full of false. So it’s, it’s all not true. And the problem here is that like cigarettes it’s gonna kill, and it does kill you look at any nuclear plant anywhere in the world and the allowed emissions, the permissible, radiation emissions, and all nuclear plants emit radio activity, cause cancer clusters around I’m on the board of the radiation and public health project. People could perhaps look up their website, radiation and public health project. It’s a deadly, deadly and unnecessary totally unnecessary. I mean, particularly these days, I wrote my first book on nuclear back in 1980, I began it the J of the three mile island accident, because just a quick story, you had gone a couple of years before to Brookhaven national laboratory.

Karl Grossman

03:37:03

I had a television show on the PBS station, a long island. They asked me to do something on nuclear. I went to Brookhaven live for some nuclear proponents, which is essentially all of them at Brookhaven lab. In fact, they call themselves Nookie’s these nuclear physicists at Brookhaven national laboratory nucleus put my microphone in front of their faces. And they said to the camera, well maybe every couple of hundred years, that might be a minor accident, but there’s so much redundancy in these machines. You’re not going to have a serious accident. And then I try to balance it out. This was not frankly good investigative reporting. It was ping-pong journalism. But at that point, I didn’t know enough about nuclear power to when these people started to lie into the camera, say, Hey, come on. And in fact, I started that book cover up what you’re not supposed to know about nuclear power.

Karl Grossman

03:37:56

The day I got the news that three mile island was undergoing a meltdown and I was thinking of those scientists and how they try to bamboozle me and my viewers look at copies of the book and it’s full of facsimiles. I figured better. This is before desktop publishing using a scissor, cutting out pieces of documents and reprinting the documents. For example, I mean, some people might say maybe those Brookhaven scientists didn’t know the dangers there’s pages and pages from the wash seven 40 update. It’s a report done at Brookhaven national laboratory in the sixties about the consequences of a major plant accident and over and over grid, many hundreds of times and wash seven 40 update. And it’s in the book. I cut it out. There. It is. It says a big accident could impact an area, the size of the state of Pennsylvania, the odds of a, of a catastrophic accident, not good either.

Karl Grossman

03:38:55

And, and in terms of, again, people haven’t been given this information in the beginning of the book, for example, and perhaps most listeners now don’t know that in the United States, because there’s something called a price Anderson act, which was passed by Congress in 1957, limiting liability gives event of a major nuclear plant accident to $560 million with the government paying the first 500 million, the utility that they would pay us 60 million, even though the consequences could be in the billions and billions of dollars. But if you look at your homeowners insurance, and I suggest that listeners to look at the nuclear clause, it’s in everybody’s homeowner’s insurance in the United States. And it says that this policy doesn’t cover loss or damage caused by radioactivity, by radiation and so forth. And what I did was I cut out was from my old state policy. I might be in good hands with all state, if I had an accident with my car, but if they would get nuclear plant accident at, for example, where I live on Eastern long island at millstone, which is right across long island sound in Connecticut or it’s Salem on oyster Creek.

Karl Grossman

04:40:09

Now in the Atlantic, in New Jersey, I would not be in good hands with Allstate and cut it out to cover up what you’re not supposed to know about nuclear power. And that was published in 1980. And it’s been as 40 years. And as I’ve given presentations through this 40 year period, I used as a slide there’s nuclear clause. And actually I print a couple of not just Allstate. I also print another insurance companies. CNA is nuclear clause. And as I’ve presented that to groups, when people have read my book, they said, we didn’t know the book cover up. What you’re not supposed to know about nuclear power begins with. You have not been told you’ve not been informed and that has been done on purpose. And that’s why I called the book cover up as to the tie-in between nuclear power and nuclear war. That’s so important for people to understand that many people and that’s surprising grouping of people are against nuclear weaponry.

Karl Grossman

04:41:10

For example, George Schultz, who was the secretary of state he’s been involved in the Hoover Institute. And here is a, an essay by George Schultz. Nuclear weapons were an all the greatest threat to humanity, survivals Schultz, very middle of the road. Republican very establishment figure says they’re affected preventing wars has been overrated and reports of the damage that caused tend to be brushed aside. Great. And there’s bunches of organizations that have been attempting to abolish, including abolition 2000 excellent organization to eliminate, to abolish nuclear weapons. But I say that’s not enough because any country with a nuclear reactor, with a nuclear power plant could follow the example of India and from a nuclear power plant, then, then have nuclear weapons. And these days what they call proliferation, and mostly the focus has been on the proliferation of nuclear weaponry. It’s not enough. It has to be the proliferation of nuclear technology period.

Karl Grossman

04:42:22

And that like chemical warfare must be stopped, must be ended. And folks might say, you can’t put the genie back in the bottle. That’s too radical. I think this notion of continuing to try to use a carrot and a stick ain’t gonna last very long. It may or may not last a generation. It’s our children, their children, their children. They’re not going to make it. If we allow nuclear technology to continue to proliferate on this planet, this gently technology, which precluded life as brick over set, which precluded life from existing billions of years ago, it will, again, if there’s a full fledged with Russia, the U S on hair-trigger alert, the U S has triad submarines with nuclear weaponry and multiple warheads. That absolutely dwarf what the atomic bombs that were dropped in here was chamber and knock a socket web that we have these ICBM’s. I mean, right now, right now, as we speak, there are soldiers in silos, mostly in the Dakotas and the United States sitting there ready to push the button on the order of God, help us. Donald Trump, you have B 52 nuclear capable bombers, the B one nuclear capable bomber. I mean, what did Trump just send to when the, this issue began with,

Libbe HaLevy

04:43:49

With a rant six nuclear capable, B 50 twos have been sent to an island in the Indian ocean that is within striking distance for us of Iran, but Iran does not have the weaponry to be able to take out those bombers. So it’s part of the preparation, the saber rattling, the positioning, the posturing, whatever you want to call it, that is again, ramping us up. And I believe as a sexual predator will groom a potential victim. This is part of grooming the United States, and indeed the world to expect that there’s going to be the use of a nuclear weapon, because as has been said by this administration, if we’ve got them, why don’t we use them? Which brings me to this question, Carl, with all of this danger out there, and you’ve articulated it wonderfully. Well, what can be done to create the pressure from the ground up to stop this March towards seemingly inevitable nuclear weapons use and begin the process of creating the earth as a nuclear free zone.

Karl Grossman

04:45:07

It’s always best to do it as a group to organize, organize, organize, organize as the fame labor leader once said. So the groups, I mentioned abolition 2000 there’s, there’s many others I’m on also on the board of a group called beyond nuclear, which is a terrific group. And it’s based in Tacoma park, Maryland as for the outlawing of nuclear power plants against nuclear power. Particularly again, with these planting phones, alternatives, solar, and wind, and we don’t need nuclear power period. And it’s against to this notion of nuclear war against nuclear weapons. It’s for the abolition of nuclear weapons. We must go beyond nuclear. We must end this dead end road that the world has been put on with nuclear. And I would recommend again, doing it in a group after grassroots is so important. And I’d recommend folks should go to the website of beyond nuclear it’s beyond nuclear.org, and you’ll see their programs, their activities join up, find people in political places.

Karl Grossman

04:46:20

And there’s not that many who understand nuclear power, and we must abolish nuclear weapons. I mean, Obama made a start at it. Obama made a very famous speech when he first took us two weeks after we took office declaring a commitment to seek the peace and security of a world without nuclear weapons problem is it didn’t take too long for Barack Obama to be pushing a modernization of the U S nuclear arsenal. Why did we need modernization? So we killed 20 million instead of 16. I mean, and in terms of nuclear power, as he started talking about clean nuclear, that’s an oxymoron. And so, so we got to watch out who is support, who we endorsed politically. There are some people in government politics who understand the relationship between nuclear power and nuclear war and join up and support them.

Libbe HaLevy

04:47:22

There’s also the international campaign to abolish nuclear weapons, or I can w.org, which is located in Scandinavia and won the Nobel peace prize in 2017 for its work against nuclear weapons. And I would strongly urge people to go to I C a N w.org to check out their work as well. There are two corollaries to that. There is don’t bank on the bomb.com, which is a highly effective international campaign for removing money, including pension funds and all kinds of financial investments from those companies that manufacture nuclear weapons. And the corollary of that here in the United States is back from the brink.org. These are all programs that are working actively to move us away from nuclear war that are structured in such a way that grassroots individuals, anyone can get involved and put their energy, their money. I don’t care if it’s 27 cents, but it gives you the right to talk with your bank manager and say, I don’t want my money invested in anything that supports nuclear weapons.

Libbe HaLevy

04:48:40

Where is the money of this bank invested? And then put your pressure there. It can be from you. It can be from your pension fund. It can be from an investment fund, talk to your financial advisors. I mean, there are a number of ways that we can do it. There are actually a number of programs that are attempting to do it, and we must do what we can as fast as we stand, because there is a drum beat trying to normalize the concept of nuclear war to a populace that doesn’t understand the full consequences of what that can do. And we need to do everything in our power to not let that happen. Because as I like to say, it’s not a matter of, oh, it’ll happen. On the other side of the planet. Earth is a rock in the middle of a bubble of environment in the middle of nowhere.

Libbe HaLevy

04:49:34

What happens on earth stays on earth and it gets recirculated around and it will smack us upside the head as it already has been from nuclear weapons that have been exploded in the environment that the radiation is there. The radiation is the lingering danger, and the fact that people don’t understand what that is and how both nuclear weapons and nuclear reactors put us in the danger of exposure to radiation, I think is the key factor in why people are not more alarmed about nukes and think that it’s just a matter of, oh, it’s a bigger bang for the buck. And so why can’t we use it

Karl Grossman

05:50:13

At this point? It’s critical for so many years by the skin of our teeth, we avoid nuclear destruction just by the skin of our teeth. And they were accidents that could have so easily propelled us. I mean, I remember as a kid growing up in New York and we did duck and cover so many years, we lived under this nuclear cloud and frankly, we’re there again. That was a report a couple of years ago. This is when Trump first took office of a defense science board. You could see this report, it’s online Federation of American scientists and others have put this online and they talk about the need for a more flexible nuclear enterprise that could produce a rapid tailored nuclear option. They’re talking here weapons for limited use such thing as limited use of nuclear weapons. But that was what was envisioned way back in the fifties. And now so many decades away. And we’ve done this full throttle reversal. We have a person in Trump who is all or normalizing, and considering the feasibility of nuclear weaponry,

Libbe HaLevy

05:51:33

Carol, this has been wide ranging. You certainly been covering this subject matter for decades now. And you know where a lot of the bodies are buried. Thank you for the work you’ve done. The vigilance. You’ve had your perspective. And I want to thank you for being my guest this week on nuclear hot seat.

Karl Grossman

05:51:53

Great to be with you.

Libbe HaLevy

05:51:55

Carl Grossman, journalists and MUN, all screes great gray eminence of the anti-nuclear movement. We’ll have a link up to Carl’s terrific book, cover up what you are not supposed to know about nuclear power, and it will be on the website, nuclear hotseat.com under this episode, number 5 44

Libbe HaLevy

05:52:23

Nuclear information and resource service or nears has a petition out entitled, speak out. Tell Congress no backdoor authorization of illegal nuclear waste dumps. The gist of this is that the impending energy and water appropriations bill there’s a provision tucked away that would trigger a dangerous unnecessary decades, long, massive high level nuclear power waste transport campaign that would truck high level radioactive waste from nuclear reactors around the country through most of the lower 48 states. And we’re not talking back roads here. We’re talking about major transportation hubs, including through major population centers. That means no matter where you are, it’s probably going to be going through your backyard. We’ll have a link up to the nearest petition on our website, nuclear hot seat.com. Under this episode, number 5 44, please go there, sign and pass along to others. The Ploughshares fund 2022 has put out a request for proposals.

Libbe HaLevy

05:53:33

They have a $1 million fund to draw upon as part of their expanded diversity and equity initiative. Equity rises. It aims to increase equity and justice in nuclear policies and institutions by empowering diverse voices, cultivating inclusive spaces across identity sector and geography and collaborating with new partners, both inside and outside. The nuclear field grants will be for between 10,070 $5,000, a real fortune to anti-nuclear groups. And up to one year long grant periods will be given. They will be holding seminars on the funding process on December 1st, January 14 and February seven. And it’s advised that you be on at least one of those. So, so you understand what they are actually looking for and how you can best frame your request. And to be clear, this is plow shared spelled P L O U G H shares, as opposed to last week, when we talked about the film, the nuns, the priests, and the bombs, which was about the plow shares movement, which is P L O w S H a R E S to avoid any confusion.

Libbe HaLevy

05:54:49

We’ve got a link up on the website and a lovely piece of acknowledgement for a fierce and beautiful fighter for a nuclear free world Setsuko Thurlow and hibachi who survived the nuclear bombing of Hiroshima and whose work is most associated with the international campaign to abolish nuclear weapons, or I can a stunning rose. Yes, the flower was cultivated by world renowned rose breeder, Mathilde for rare in honor of SESCO Thurlow his life and legacy and her tireless action and advocacy for a world without nuclear weapons. It has been planted in the botanical gardens of the university of Valencia Spain to mark the international day for the total elimination of nuclear weapons. How lovely to commemorate someone whose work is so on behalf of life with something that is both alive and beautiful. This has been nuclear hot seat for Tuesday, November 23rd, 2021 material for this week show has been researched and compiled from nuclear-news.net to own renard.wordpress.com beyond nuclear.org, nears.org, the international campaign to abolish nuclear weapons, or I can wwe.org ploughshares.org, fredericksburg.today.

Libbe HaLevy

05:56:10

News for jacks.com, yahoo.com. Mental floss.com dw.com Seattle times.com radiation.org, the bulletin.org, civil beat.org fukushima-diary.com. And Mochizuki it’s good to hear from you again, money dot USA news.com daily star.co.uk. You’re active.com. AP news.com. Clean technica.com global times.cn, radiation free Lakeland, the soul dead cubicle drones who write propaganda for world nuclear news and the captured and compromised by the industry. They’re supposed to be regulating nuclear regulatory commission. Now, if you want to get nuclear hot seat every week and not miss a single episode, it’s easy. We deliver it by email. If you go to nuclear hot seat.com, scroll around and look for the yellow box and sign up for a weekly email link to the latest show. You’ll get it. As soon as it posts. It’s also somewhat of a participatory democracy here as at least as far as suggestions go. So if you’ve got a story lead, a hot tip or an idea of someone to interview, send that information to me in an email@infoatnuclearhotseat.com.

Libbe HaLevy

05:57:33

And remember, if you appreciate weekly verifiable news updates about nuclear issues around the world, this is Thanksgiving week. Show your thanks. Take a moment and go to nuclear, hot seat.com and look for that big red button. Follow the prompts and anything you can do will help. And we will really appreciate your support. This episode of nuclear hot seat is copyright 2021 levy Halevi and hardest street communications, all rights reserved, but fair use allowed. As long as proper attribution is provided. This is Leiby Halevi of heart history, communications, the heart of the art of communicating, reminding you that nuclear weapons and nuclear energy are two sides of the same corn. It’s all in the same issue. Both are dangerous, and we need to do without both. There you go. You have just had your nuclear wake up call. So don’t go back to sleep because we are all in the nuclear hot seat,

Announcer

05:58:38

Nuclear Hotsy it’s the bomb.